Amphibia

CousinMerl said:
it still felt like she could've been written as more than she ultimately was in the show (despite not being a focal character and the series having more important stuff to focus on). Felt like there was a missed opportunity with the character.
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I think I mentioned this in the show's thread after I got the DVD set but even they knew that Wendy was underused as they actually came up with several ideas for episodes that were devoted to her, but were all rejected because they felt they never really gelled well with her personality.

The closest they ever got was an episode which would've focused on her home life and seen her gaining powers akin to Storm from the X-Men. At the very last minute, this was scrapped giving Alex Hirsch only two days to write the episode that took it's place which was The Last Mabelcorn (where she still ended up playing a major role).
 
@John95, That what you are saying confirms something that I've felt about Wendy: They were unsure of how to really utilize her, let alone how to even write her (creatively, at least) when push came to shove. I wonder why they struggled with that when later animated shows has usually had no problems write fully realized teenage girl characters (with 'Amphibia' being and excellent example of that). Kinda sound like they tried too hard to find the perfect stories to fit her and it held the character back.

As for that planned episode with Wendy getting crazy weather powers, I think it sounded really intriguing and a lot of fun (and as I remember not being a terribly big fan of 'The Last Mabelcorn', I definitely think they should've done that Wendy story instead). In the end, it almost felt like we got to know a little more about Robbie (a minor character) than her, even properly meeting his parents and seeing his home while Wendy's family were relegated to minor brief appearances throughout the show's run.
 
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speaking of teenagers, Disney should have just allowed them to be 15/16. Its not beleivable in the slightest that they're 13 especially in season 3 when Anne is just driving a van around town.
 
Not to mention the way they are designed, the way they sound & the way they talk (even many of their choice of words & linguo they use) they rather feel like they are at least 15 rather than the stated 13.

We (well, at least myself, @John95 & @Wile E. the Brain) have actually been talking about the ages of the three girls earlier in this thread after John posted a link to an interview with Matt Braly (see here). Quoting the relevant part:

“They were older in the original pitches,” Braly says. “[Anne, Sasha, and Marcy] were around 15 originally, because it was supposed to feel a bit more like high school than middle school, but we did age them down to better fit the demographic. But the characters never changed. I’ve seen before where fans are like ‘She feels much older,’ but the story is relatively unchanged regardless of them being aged down or up. I did see some comments of people going, ‘She can drive?!’ but in the context of the episode it will definitely make sense.”
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Yeah, I remembered that interview and it makes sense looking at the show. Season 3 esepecially just makes the 13 thing sound ridiculous. Even without that interview it would be impossible for me to accept season 3 Sasha is 13, she basically looks and acts like a 17 year old, at least.
 
Yeah, while it's too bad it won't hit the initial street date, that delay is not a biggie at all. It's not like it suddenly goy delayed until some time next year (like what happened to season 2 of 'The Ghost And Molly McGee', which is still something that I'm let down over).
 
Awful take from far too many people in the fanbase who trick new viewers into thinking the show is about Anne, Sasha and Marcy, and then complain when they turn out to not be the main characters and the show focuses on the Plantars. From the first episode of the show to the last the show is about the relationship between Anne and Sprig and people miss the point and tell people to skip the early parts of that relationship.
 
Oh, I had forgotten about Disneycember this year. Anyhow interesting to hear Doug Walker covered the show.

But anyhow Skipping season 1 is just a terrible idea. We have time and time again talked anout how important a lot of things (maybe most of them) were from that season, even smaller seemingly insignificant moments, and skipping past any of that a lot of would be lost so a big fat NOPE to "you'll be fine if you skip the first season, which is soo slow and uneventful!". It is more crucial than I think anyone would believe (and I'll die on a hill saying that that inagural season is underrated as a whole. Still a great season).

I just think far too many fans are too enamored with the Anne-Sasha-Marcy storyline that they forget the show is, at the core, about the unlikely friendship and close bond between Anne and Sprig (and also her bond with the Plantar family as a whole) that their judgement get clouded. I get it, with how really excellently the show did with the three girls and the conflict and drama between them, but the importance of the Plantars (and Wartwood & its people, at that) should never, ever be downplayed or you'll miss out a whole lot.

Doug Walker really gets on my nerves sometimes with his terrible takes (and yet again stuff seem to have gone past his head, which seem to be a common occurrance) and now he might even have inspired new viewers to skip part of this excellent show. Yikes. I really hope not too many will take his advice on skipping out any of the show. I dunno what it is with people not wanting a gradually building overarching story and want to get to the meatier stuff quickly. I think that had the show rushed things too soon it wouldn't have had the same positive impact, at least not to me so I'm really glad it took its time, which is what I think is part of what made it great.
 
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CousinMerl said:
I just think far too many fans are too enamored with the Anne-Sasha-Marcy storyline that they forget the show is, at the core, about the unlikely friendship and close bond between Anne and Sprig (and also her bond with the Plantar family as a whole) that their judgement get clouded. I get it, with how really excellently the show did with the three girls and the conflict and drama between them, but the importance of the Plantars (and Wartwood & its people, at that) should never, ever be downplayed or you'll miss out a whole lot.
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Like a huge part of the dynamic is the Plantars being like family to her, and Sprig never betraying her the way her earth friends did. And why it was such a huge deal that Hop Pop lied to her about the box. It gets to a point where some people who are anti Plantar dont actually like Amphibia, they like the version of it they have in their heads.
 
Additionally, I did watch said Disneycember review of the series & it has more problems than telling people to skip S1 (Also, he skipped over a lot that should've and could've been mentioned without making the review much longer; I don't think he ever mentioned all the Plantars by name & I wished he'd touched upon Marcy & King Andrias, who stood out despite being in a limited number episodes). He really need to script these reviews (they do come off as improvisational as he sounds so awkward doing them).

I don't get Doug's obsession with directly comparing the show at hand with prior similar series (He keeps mentioning 'Adventure Time' & 'Steven Universe' specifically) and having the mindset that everything here has been done before and better in prior shows and therefore this one apparently isn't as good nor impressive to him. I think that not judging this one on its own is a HUGE disservice to it and all that it tries to do. And what the hell is up with that shitty take on how feeling the series felt like it was supposed to have four seasons and feeling truncated in the end with "two finales" (as he described it); Come on, it really did feel like a proper three part story and was well paced IMO (and has he never heard of a two-part or multi-part finale before)? What is all this nonsense?

I think pretty much every commenter on the video (that seemingly are all positive and give some really good and even a few interesting analytical takes; might even post an analysis I found of the show that even explains why S1 is important) has a better idea of the show than Doug ever will have (and he will continue to be an close-minded & cynical fella).
 
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What I'm taking out of this is that I'm glad so many people are criticizing this point of view. It's just inexcusable, especially for someone with such a large audience, to casually advise to skip season 1 altogether. Not only for the episodes themselves (most of the time really fun and clever), but also because of their role in the great scheme of things (character development ? Never heard of it).

I'm trying to write a script about a certain topic Amphibia is dealing with since day one, and as such, it feels all the more insulting. I get it, Disneycember is a way to talk about as much Disney properties as possible, but the thing is, if you're gonna binge-watch them and write some one-dimensional review about them, I'd rather take quality over quantity.
 
Furthermore, I also find his take on the comedy kinda strange. He pretty much says that the show didn't really become funny until season 2 & the humor apparently wasn't really great until season 3 (at least that was the general vibe I felt), while I thought he humor was top notch pretty much from the get go. Sure, it developed as it went on, but I still think it could be hilarios from the beginning.

I'm also gonna quote an extensive post I came across in the YouTube comment section for that Disneycember episode as I think it stood out as it is an analysis of the show's story structure and how it works, with how important the first season is. I feel it is relevant to the discussion (And it has unmarked spoilers, which I think is fairly obvious considering it breaks down the series in chunks):

Here's what I have to say regarding the story structure of Amphibia.

Season 1:

The first season consists of 20 episodes, which can all be split into 4 sections regarding its story structure.

- Episodes 1-5 help to not only set up the main character's personalities, but also Anne's relationship and dynamic with the Plantars. Anne not only becomes best friends with Sprig, but also develop a big sister and little brother type relationship. Polly is skeptical of Anne at first, but they develop a sister like relationship. Hop Pop is the parental guardian/authoritative figure that butts heads with Anne's rebellious/care free attitude, but grow to like and respect each other as people.

- Episodes 6-10 help to develop Anne's relationship with the town itself. Now that she has to venture more into the town of Wartwood, she has to deal with how others perceive her. At first, the town doesn't trust or like her, resulting in everyone treating her with disrespect. It's only when she stands up for the town that she's finally given respect and is accepted as a citizen.

- Episodes 11-15 help to develop Anne's relationship with more of the individual characters that inhabit Wartwood like Wally, Maddie, and Mrs. Croaker.

- Episodes 16-20 help to show not only just how much of a difference Anne has made ever since she was transported to Amphibia, but also how much she herself has changed. Her time with the Plantars, the Town of Wartood, and all the crazy adventures she's been on has helped her to grow as a person and be better than she was when she arrived. All this culminating in the season finale where Anne faces off against Sasha, after realizing how much of a toxic friendship they’ve had for most of their lives.


Season 2:

The second season also follows a similar structure to the first season with its 20 episodes.

- Episodes 1-5 show Anne and the Plantars’ new journey to travel to Newtopia. We finally get to go outside of Wartwood and explore more of the world of Amphibia, resulting in new kinds of adventures for the main characters.

- Episodes 6-10 show life inside of Newtopia and the wonders to explore in such a kingdom. It’s also through these episodes that were given more answers as to what the music box is and how it works.

- Episodes 11-15 show our main characters returning to Wartwood and giving more focus to some of the other side characters that haven’t gotten enough screen time. It’s also through these episodes that we visit the three temples that restore the power of the stones and what they each represent.

- Episodes 16-20 help to develop the growing conflict between the group of characters. Sasha’s inner conflict about manipulating her friends, Marcy’s secret deal when returning the music box, and Andrius’ true intentions about using the music box. All this culminating in the season finale, where everyone’s “true colors” are shown and the fight for the music box takes place.

Season 3:

The third season is the only one with a different structure compared to the previous two seasons.

Seeing as how this is the third and final season with only 18 episodes, it does have a bit of a different structure compared to the previous two seasons.

- Episodes 1-10 sees Anne return home and the Plantars travel to Earth for the first time. These episodes are important for different reasons. Firstly, since most of the show has spent time in Amphibia and showing why it’s worth saving, it’s equally important to spend time on Earth and show why it’s worth saving as well. Anne’s parents, many of the people they’ve met and made friends with are reasons why they need to stop Andrius and the Core’s invasion. Secondly, it helps to show the urgency of the characters’ current situation because while they can enjoy things that Earth has to offer, they also need to find another way back to Amphibia and stop Andrius.

- Episodes 11-18 sees Anne and the Plantars return to Amphibia, but in a state of oppression and many of their friends/allies forming a resistance against the upcoming invasion. These episodes are important because they show everyone throughout the entirety of the show coming together to stop the big threat. All this culminating in the series finale, where everyone’s story arc comes to an epic and bittersweet conclusion.
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Wile E. the Brain said:
What I'm taking out of this is that I'm glad so many people are criticizing this point of view. It's just inexcusable, especially for someone with such a large audience, to casually advise to skip season 1 altogether. Not only for the episodes themselves (most of the time really fun and clever), but also because of their role in the great scheme of things (character development ? Never heard of it).
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It's such an odd thing to say. Skipping the first season just to go to Reunion just makes it worse. You dont see why Anne would have a much stronger attachment to the frogs than Sasha, and later on you dont see why the town would have such a strong attachment to her.

CousinMerl said:
I don't get Doug's obsession with directly comparing the show at hand with prior similar series (He keeps mentioning 'Adventure Time' & 'Steven Universe' specifically) and having the mindset that everything here has been done before and better in prior shows and therefore this one apparently isn't as good nor impressive to him. I think that not judging this one on its own is a HUGE disservice to it and all that it tries to do. And what the hell is up with that shitty take on how feeling the series felt like it was supposed to have four seasons and feeling truncated in the end with "two finales" (as he described it); Come on, it really did feel like a proper three part story and was well paced IMO (and has he never heard of a two-part or multi-part finale before)? What is all this nonsense?
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It's funny he's comparing Amphibia to those shows as being better, two worse paced shows with much less focused stories and much messier messages because of it. Also, Amphibia's humour is at its best in season 1, when how dangerous the world they lived in was most in focus and drove a lot of the comedy.
 
I mean, between the large fanbase and the dedication of Braly and his crew & how Disney treated the show a heck of a lot better than they did 'The Owl House', was there ever really any doubts about 'Amphibia' getting an art book?

But honestly, it's great that it gets another book (and this relatively long after it ended is astounding). Cover is perfect.
 
CousinMerl said:
But honestly, it's great that it gets another book (and this relatively long after it ended is astounding). Cover is perfect.
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looks like a fucking videogame, and i love it!!!!!!!!!! omg wait! amphibia video game MAKE IT HAPPEN
 
Okay, so this is not 'Amphibia'-related per se, but since Matt Braly is involved....

deadline.com

Sony Pictures Animation Developing Thai Fantasy-Adventure Pic From Matt Braly

'Amphibia' creator Matt Braly has been tapped to develop a new animated feature for Sony Pictures Animation.
deadline.com deadline.com

Really cool to see he gets to develop an animated movie for a major studio (that isn't Warner Bros); I suppose it also seemingly being written by Rebecca Sugar is noteable as well. Hope the project sees the light of day and won't be shelved or cancelled.
 
CousinMerl said:
Okay, so this is not 'Amphibia'-related per se, but since Matt Braly is involved....

deadline.com

Sony Pictures Animation Developing Thai Fantasy-Adventure Pic From Matt Braly

'Amphibia' creator Matt Braly has been tapped to develop a new animated feature for Sony Pictures Animation.
deadline.com deadline.com

Really cool to see he gets to develop an animated movie for a major studio (that isn't Warner Bros); I suppose it also seemingly being written by Rebecca Sugar is noteable as well. Hope the project sees the light of day and won't be shelved or cancelled.
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Cool, and Rebecca Sugar also working alongside Matt is pretty cool (I remember them appearing in the Season 3 Mid-Season Finale).
 
Jackomon said:
Rebecca Sugar also working alongside Matt is pretty cool (I remember them appearing in the Season 3 Mid-Season Finale).
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That's true. She appeared in the Christmas episode (as a street musician) and sang a couple of songs. They certainly know each other so it is neat that they partnered up again for this movie, which I can't help but be a bit excited for already.

(Reminds me I have yet to watch 'Steven Universe' (been preoccupied with so many shows over the years), but maybe this time...)
 
CousinMerl said:
Okay, so this is not 'Amphibia'-related per se, but since Matt Braly is involved....

deadline.com

Sony Pictures Animation Developing Thai Fantasy-Adventure Pic From Matt Braly

'Amphibia' creator Matt Braly has been tapped to develop a new animated feature for Sony Pictures Animation.
deadline.com deadline.com

Really cool to see he gets to develop an animated movie for a major studio (that isn't Warner Bros); I suppose it also seemingly being written by Rebecca Sugar is noteable as well. Hope the project sees the light of day and won't be shelved or cancelled.
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Cautiously optimistic about this. Worse-case scenario, this ends up getting cancelled, so I'm hoping for smooth production.
 
Not gonna lie, I 100% forgot that this was a thing, but remembering it again has me excited for it
 
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