When and how did “The Principal and the Pauper” become the de facto “breaking point”?

Not an answer to the main question but something that has annoyed me for a while with it is that's it's basically the same premise as "Lisa the Iconoclast". Which was just a much better way of doing it.
 
I just gotta jump in and say that as for those mentioned YouTube videos from 2017, they may very well have contributed in making the idea of the episode being THE jump the shark moment mainstream among even people that aren't really interested in the show. However among actuall Simpsons fans, the idea of that The Principal and the Pauper was the defining jump the shark moment was universally known waaaaay before 2017. I mean even among people that entirely diagree with that notion, the notion itself was something that everyone was aware of. Just go look at discussions on this very forum.

As for when exactly this notion first became mainstream within the core fanbase? I don't know. I'm pretty sure this was the case even when I first started involving myself in the online Simpsons community in 2001 or so, but my memory is fuzzy.
 
It’s been years since I’ve seen the episode and heard the DVD commentary, but I think my biggest complaint with this episode was the writers came across with the notion of “if you didn’t like the episode, and the rewriting of Skinners life”, you aren’t SUPPOSED to.

It’s almost like a sly way of trying to make the episode critic proof.
 
Sandboy said:
Now, 6 years later...
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It's a bit poetic really. I used to be one of those modern Simpsons haters but I think S33 and S34 have been one of my comfort shows. I remember mocking @B-Boy for that reason but looks like the really recent seasons have grown on me




I would like to add one more thing, I've noticed we've been growing disdainful of these hyper critical, rigid, black and white view on not just The Simpsons, but also to shows like SpongeBob. That show was subject to a LOT of criticism during its dark age. Some of it being very over exaggerated. So much so, the writers of one of the SpongeBob episodes got so much harassment. I believe this hyper critical era went from the late 2000s but stopped around the mid to late 2010s. We still see a bit of that mindset today. However, that's a lot less common today thankfully. I'm happy we've grown out of this "moDeRn sIMpsOnS bAd" or "MOdErN sPOnGebOb BaD"





Another theory as to why people are beginning to appreciate is because people are also starting to sick of adult cartoons which rely on being mean-spirited (Family Guy, Velma), overly crass (Hoops, Paradise PD), having terrible animation (12 Oz Mouse), having bad shock humor (Drawn Together, Big Mouth), yelling its message at the viewer (South Park, Fairview, Santa Inc.) and being annoyingly meta (Rick and Morty, Big Mouth, Velma and Modern Family Guy).



The Simpsons in comparison barely had any of that in it's entire run. It did fall into these traps the longer the show goes on but in the end, we always return to seeing the yellow family we've grown to love. I know some people still think The Simpsons in the last 2 and a half years is nothing more than a Disney Channel sitcom, but I say "Bah", while nowhere near as good as the first 8/9 seasons. I'm still okay with the show going on the way as it's doing now.
 
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ThatCraptacularUser said:
It's a bit poetic really. I used to be one of those modern Simpsons haters but I think S33 and S34 have been one of my comfort shows. I remember mocking @B-Boy for that reason but looks like the really recent seasons have grown on me




I would like to add one more thing, I've noticed we've been growing disdainful of these hyper critical, rigid, black and white view on not just The Simpsons, but also to shows like SpongeBob. That show was subject to a LOT of criticism during its dark age. Some of it being very over exaggerated. So much so, the writers of one of the SpongeBob episodes got so much harassment. I believe this hyper critical era went from the late 2000s but stopped around the mid to late 2010s. We still see a bit of that mindset today. However, that's a lot less common today thankfully. I'm happy we've grown out of this "moDeRn sIMpsOnS bAd" or "MOdErN sPOnGebOb BaD"





Another theory as to why people are beginning to appreciate is because people are also starting to sick of adult cartoons which rely on being mean-spirited (Family Guy, Velma), overly crass (Hoops, Paradise PD), having terrible animation (12 Oz Mouse), having bad shock humor (Drawn Together, Big Mouth), yelling its message at the viewer (South Park, Fairview, Santa Inc.) and being annoyingly meta (Rick and Morty, Big Mouth, Velma and Modern Family Guy).



The Simpsons in comparison barely had any of that in it's entire run. It did fall into these traps the longer the show goes on but in the end, we always return to seeing the yellow family we've grown to love. I know some people still think The Simpsons in the last 2 and a half years is nothing more than a Disney Channel sitcom, but I say "Bah", while nowhere near as good as the first 8/9 seasons. I'm still okay with the show going on the way as it's doing now.
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having terrible animation (12 Oz Mouse),
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I was shocked by this one! :( Why did you say that?
 
i guess the reason why pauper became the breaking point because of "late season 8" episodes in the production line being a noticeable step down in quality by most fans, the quality of the episodes compared to early and mid season 8 are noticeably worse. and with season 8 loving to change its characters, the writers went a bit too far with its experimentation and they basically said screw you to the audience, and change a character that the audience of the show has loved for 9 years, which made a lot of fans salty

also with season 9 being in many fans opinion weaker than season 8 in most aspects, the episode you could say was a perfect signalling for the show going down hill, and when the 5f production line started minus THOH 8 and the cartridge family, the show began to show some signs of decline, but the decline truly didn't start until season 10
 
Altairia said:
City Of New York is pretty much the last good Oakley/Weinstein episode. I suppose it's just convenient to call Principal And The Pauper the breaking point since after that is the infamous Scully era.
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I actually prefer Lisa The Simpson to the New York episode, even though the concept of the “Simpsons gene” was polarizing. But yeah, end of the run for the classic era basically. At least season 9 of the Scully era is pretty decent. Season 10 is basically a different show.
 
As other people have alluded to, I feel like the main reason people single out Pauper as being the first "bad" episode is because it's sort officially designated as such by the show itself. Like I remember Matt Groening's introduction to the season 9 DVD calling where he calls it his least favourite episode (or something to that effect) and that sort of thing sticks in people's heads, particularly coming from the creator of the series himself. If Mr. Simpsons himself doesn't like it, then it must be garbage is an easy thought to run away with, you know? Not to mention how it's referred to mockingly a couple of times in later episodes, so even people who don't read interviews and such will get the impression that it's a joke bad episode of sorts.

Personally, I liked it. I feel like I got the joke and the intention and found plenty of funniness in there and it seems to have been retconned itself by now (stuff like a flashback of Skinner in Agnes' womb), so any "ruining" of his character that anyone felt isn't really relevant anymore and the episode can be enjoyed as a sort of fantasy one, even if wasn't actually intended that way at the time.

(Also, I had no idea until seeing this thread that Lisa the Simpson is considered at all polarising! I always considered it a favourite.)
 
I don’t like the concept of changing his backstory or anyone’s but I still give this one a 10/10. It’s super funny and well animated and acted. For me the show didn’t get bad with scully but al Jean. Scully was a downgrade sure but I love 99% of that era. Al Jean just made the show morally toxic and unfunny and ruined the art style , ect.
 
The conceit doesn't work because Skinner's mom was clearly drawn to resemble him. It's an affront to visual literacy to say the one woman in this rigorously designed cartoon world who looks like Skinner is not his bio mom. Also, I don't buy Skinner being a street punk.

The episode isn't funny, either. You have this oddly self-serious story that doesn't make sense combined with groaners like America balls, forks and plates, scumdrops, that extended bit in the car on the way to Capitol City....it's depressing.
 
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