UK Politics Thread: You Brexit, you pays for it.

sick to the back teeth of people defending him or making excuses for him, he sabotaged his own party's campaign on the most important vote of a generation. he's a piece of shit.
 
steamed_hamms said:
well, this is silly
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- literally nobody thinks corbyn is solely responsible for brexit. literally nobody.
- nobody thinks corbyn was going to persuade everybody in the industrial heartlands (frankly, he has no fucking appeal to anybody there so that's just another point against him)
apologies for getting that impression from a piece which said "Within hours of the vote, Labour MPs were openly blaming Corbyn for the huge Brexit vote in the party’s heartlands". and no of course i didn't think anyone thought he was solely responsible for brexit but implied in all this outrage over his campaign is that he was majorly responsible which he wasn't

- having a united front against brexit from across the political spectrum might have persuaded some people, yes. this referendum was close ffs.
an incredibly negligible amount. there was plenty of cross party activity in this campaign. and remain's reliance on "elite figures" could arguably be seen as a weak point

- the remain campaign courted him directly and he wouldn't play ball. how is that being "poor to him"
you have misread my sentence which admittedly missed a comma. i meant "like the remain campaign wasn't poor, ignoring corbyn['s lack of playing ball with it]

- he ran on a platform where he said he would energise the young. they didn't turnout.
could just as easily blame the plp's natural resistance towards corbyn and the infighting for this as much as corbyn, so?? think it just depends on what inherently biased theoretical lens you want to take here

- he barely campaigned until the end and barely had a positive word to say about the eu
most voters don't have a positive word to say about the eu and i would dispute that he barely campaigned until the end. from what i could tell, admittedly anecdotally, he was doing plenty

hamm you know i luv ya but i just fundamentally disagree here. i think your corbyn hatred is a bit too fervent and it's stopping you from making some fair analysis (that's not me trying to be condescending btw which i know it might sound - i'm sure my position is stopping me from making good analysis too)
 
literally i still think corbyn is incompetent and stubborn and dishonest, i just don't think this brexit stuff is really that damning when looking at the wider picture. and i still see (some very very slim) potential in the project

i'm off to bed now anyway. night all x
 
steamed_hamms said:
god forbid anyone suggest a left wing mp should take responsibility for their destructive actions
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Clone said a lot of what I'm thinking in that it's just a waste of time to blame Corbyn for this loss. It's obviously clear that centrists have been dying for any sort of reason to oust Corbyn (and say goodbye to any sort of hard left) and might as well use the anger of brexit to do their bidding.
 
Also I know lots of non British users hate this thread but it's actually helped me get informed on a lot of issues in the UK I would otherwise not care about and I know I still have tons to learn(the obvious one being my lack of ever having lived in the UK).
 
clone man, i don't want to fall out with you but this is some alternate reality denialist garbage

c l o n e said:
- literally nobody thinks corbyn is solely responsible for brexit. literally nobody.
- nobody thinks corbyn was going to persuade everybody in the industrial heartlands (frankly, he has no fucking appeal to anybody there so that's just another point against him)
apologies for getting that impression from a piece which said "Within hours of the vote, Labour MPs were openly blaming Corbyn for the huge Brexit vote in the party’s heartlands". and no of course i didn't think anyone thought he was solely responsible for brexit but implied in all this outrage over his campaign is that he was majorly responsible which he wasn't
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he deserves a share of responsibility for actively sabotaging his own party's campaign. that's an act of blatant self destruction.

do you also not see that you're implicitly admitting you don't believe he appeals to labour industrial heartlands? that's a pretty bad indictment of the leader of the fucking labour party.

- he ran on a platform where he said he would energise the young. they didn't turnout.
could just as easily blame the plp's natural resistance towards corbyn and the infighting for this as much as corbyn, so?? think it just depends on what inherently biased theoretical lens you want to take here
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1. the young people he didn't energise don't care what mike gapes thinks of jeremy corbyn
2. they barely made a sound during the referendum campaign against him

- he barely campaigned until the end and barely had a positive word to say about the eu
most voters don't have a positive word to say about the eu and i would dispute that he barely campaigned until the end. from what i could tell, admittedly anecdotally, he was doing plenty
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but he was meant to be making a case for it. he should have also been making the case against brexit. doing the negative campaigning stuff too. it was half hearted and weak. AND HE FUCKING SABOTAGED OUR OWN CAMPAIGN. HE INTENTIONALLY SABOTAGED IT.

hamm you know i luv ya but i just fundamentally disagree here. i think your corbyn hatred is a bit too fervent and it's stopping you from making some fair analysis (that's not me trying to be condescending btw which i know it might sound - i'm sure my position is stopping me from making good analysis too)
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nah, i'm sorry but you're indulging something that will kill off an already weak labour party
 
Old painty-can Ned said:
Clone said a lot of what I'm thinking in that it's just a waste of time to blame Corbyn for this loss. It's obviously clear that centrists have been dying for any sort of reason to oust Corbyn (and say goodbye to any sort of hard left) and might as well use the anger of brexit to do their bidding.
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people want him gone for lots of reasons. intentionally sabotaging an internal campaign that he pretended to support seems like a pretty strong one to me.
 
for the record, corbyn isn't even in the top 5 people i blame for brexit. but he doesn't get to sabotage labour campaigns without criticism.
 
The Spruce Moose said:
Brexit isn't the worst thing to happen to Corbyn's Labour no, but for me it's the straw that broke the camel's back
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This is the important part for me. If it was just a lackluster Remain campaign i'd still be mad because I personally believe in the EU, but it'd be one mistake and i'd still be in the 'I don't support him but he needs more time to succeed or fail on his own merits' camp. It's that Corbyn has somehow combined all the worst possiblities with his own policy (he goes for unpopular things or things people don't care about, yet at the same time I genuinely don't know where Corbyn's Labour stand on some of the most important things in British politics). So then a half-arsed approach to campaigning on something the party membership overwhelmingly were in favour of but he was lukewarm about did it for me. He can't sell his own manifesto, and he won't campaign for policies the party believes in but he doesn't. I have no faith that it'll get any better for us under Corbyn, so he has to go.

(For what it's worth I also place far more blame on the Tory Remain campaign being a shambles but Cameron & Osbourne aren't actively dismantling the party i've believed in for my entire adult life so far so i'm madder about this.)
 
burnham is such a ridiculous wet, cannot believe he decided to stay
but watson's statement is ominous for jez. the secretary of state for the sword of damocles is about to pay him a visit.
 
Lib Dems seem to be enjoying some popularity right now. The state of the Tories and Labour post-ref is probably the best thing that could've happened to them. If only they were willing to consider what they'd actually do if they won the GE after we leave the EU, beyond want to get back in.
 
shit meme but

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Also, had Sky News on for a while today and they were showing a ton of stuff live from the house of commons because of all those shadow cabinet members leaving and new people being sworn in. Watching those fuckers all shouting over each other like rowdy schoolkids with Mr. Speaker having to tell them off for being pricks like a headmaster trying to calm down an assembly makes me wanna punch every single one of the bastards square in the jaw. I know it's nothing new but having not seen it for a while makes it all the more annoying when you're reminded of how shit the levels of decorum are in that place.
 
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