Rate & Review: "Lisa's Belly" (QABF20)
- Thread starter Brad Lascelle
- Start date
SimpsonsWillGoOnForever
Pin Pal
Milhouse has always been a momma's boy and the lines he says in this episode are very in character for him even if a little weird. Considering Milhouse existed before Kirk, it's more likely the writers took inspiration from Milhouse to make Kirk.
Nitsy
Gone to Bread
-So, the diaper joke: not as bad as I was expecting, but definitely weird. The idea that Milhouse might choose to wear a swim diaper for "total freedom" is pretty disturbing. Not surprised Maggie was weirded out.
-Bart and Lisa having fun with Homer is always nice to see.
-Okay, didn't need a callback to the diaper joke, yeesh.
-Shauna actually wasn't terrible here and I had to laugh at Lisa having a genuine tantrum.
-I laughed at Homer's failed attempt to have a heart-to-heart with Lisa.
-I liked Patty and Selma's song and didn't think it was too long at all.
-Yeah, what is with Milhouse this episode? He's just disturbing in every scene. I prefer dorky Milhouse to gross Milhouse.
-The therapist has one breast. Just saying.
-I smiled at the Homer peanut butter cutaway and the somewhat pessimistic ending.
I enjoyed this. We have seen plenty of Marge-Lisa conflict episodes, and some of the recent ones haven't worked so well, like Marge obsessing over Lisa attending college (Marge's motives for feeling so strongly never getting an explanation). Here, though, the conflict is done much better with Marge not understanding how her words affect Lisa and Lisa internalizing Marge's words about her appearance and them both coming to an understanding and a pleasant reconciliation at the end. I didn't feel that this episode was really trying to be a commentary about how women's bodies are viewed (or, if it was, the only real nod to that was Patty and Selma's song). The main point was the miscommunication between Marge and Lisa and the power of the hurtful words of loved ones. If they were trying to make it about how Lisa shouldn't care about her weight or how differently weight gain is viewed between males and females (Bart's weight gain was only viewed positively because the bullies mistook it for muscle after Bart referenced taking steroids) they didn't really focus on that. Patty and Selma's advice doesn't really have any affect on Lisa's behavior; in the end it was trumped by Marge again saying something insensitive, which is what the main focus of the episode was. So in this regard I felt the episode was a little unfocused. And maybe they should do an episode about Bart internalizing all the times he's been called dumb and useless? Just an idea.
Bart's subplot was entertaining and it was nice to see him act his age, though it's a little hard to take seriously given how many girlfriends Bart has had in the past. For him to now be like "eww girls are gross" felt a little out-of-character.
4/5
-Bart and Lisa having fun with Homer is always nice to see.
-Okay, didn't need a callback to the diaper joke, yeesh.
-Shauna actually wasn't terrible here and I had to laugh at Lisa having a genuine tantrum.
-I laughed at Homer's failed attempt to have a heart-to-heart with Lisa.
-I liked Patty and Selma's song and didn't think it was too long at all.
-Yeah, what is with Milhouse this episode? He's just disturbing in every scene. I prefer dorky Milhouse to gross Milhouse.
-The therapist has one breast. Just saying.
-I smiled at the Homer peanut butter cutaway and the somewhat pessimistic ending.
I enjoyed this. We have seen plenty of Marge-Lisa conflict episodes, and some of the recent ones haven't worked so well, like Marge obsessing over Lisa attending college (Marge's motives for feeling so strongly never getting an explanation). Here, though, the conflict is done much better with Marge not understanding how her words affect Lisa and Lisa internalizing Marge's words about her appearance and them both coming to an understanding and a pleasant reconciliation at the end. I didn't feel that this episode was really trying to be a commentary about how women's bodies are viewed (or, if it was, the only real nod to that was Patty and Selma's song). The main point was the miscommunication between Marge and Lisa and the power of the hurtful words of loved ones. If they were trying to make it about how Lisa shouldn't care about her weight or how differently weight gain is viewed between males and females (Bart's weight gain was only viewed positively because the bullies mistook it for muscle after Bart referenced taking steroids) they didn't really focus on that. Patty and Selma's advice doesn't really have any affect on Lisa's behavior; in the end it was trumped by Marge again saying something insensitive, which is what the main focus of the episode was. So in this regard I felt the episode was a little unfocused. And maybe they should do an episode about Bart internalizing all the times he's been called dumb and useless? Just an idea.
Bart's subplot was entertaining and it was nice to see him act his age, though it's a little hard to take seriously given how many girlfriends Bart has had in the past. For him to now be like "eww girls are gross" felt a little out-of-character.
4/5
John95
SuperFriend
@B-Boy, It wouldn't be worth getting hung up over if they just kept it at him desiring to wear a diaper. But nope, they make it worse by not only showing him wearing the diaper but then later revealing that he still baths with his mother (and maybe to a lesser degree he and his mother sharing the same dressing room).
To further go on what @Nitsy said, it's OK to have him be weird if he comes across as dorky which is in-character, but not here where his weirdness comes off as disturbing and pathetic/sad like a smaller version of his dad.
To further go on what @Nitsy said, it's OK to have him be weird if he comes across as dorky which is in-character, but not here where his weirdness comes off as disturbing and pathetic/sad like a smaller version of his dad.
Venomrabbit
Passion's gone
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2012
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- 3,008
Oh the thing with the therapist was on purpose, they mentioned how they were gonna have a character be a breast cancer survivor. I guess neat touch. Though if she's just a one timer... well, it IS a disney property now. *wink*
And I'll still take dorky or gross Milhouse over "obssessed with Lisa and nothing else" Milhouse. Or Incel Milhouse. Maybe not worth noting that much but it's also the first time in a while where he's showed up and I haven't either forgot he was there or wondering what he was there for at all... Tapped Out is really bad about using him pointlessly everywhere including the Star Of The Backstage miniquest and Anime-Marge's questline too.
And I'll still take dorky or gross Milhouse over "obssessed with Lisa and nothing else" Milhouse. Or Incel Milhouse. Maybe not worth noting that much but it's also the first time in a while where he's showed up and I haven't either forgot he was there or wondering what he was there for at all... Tapped Out is really bad about using him pointlessly everywhere including the Star Of The Backstage miniquest and Anime-Marge's questline too.
John95
SuperFriend
Somehow I failed to notice that she only had one breast, but I noticed she had a mark on it.
Final ratings: 1.83 mil, 0.6 rat
Scrooge McDuck
Stonecutter
First right off the bat, the corticosteroids they were taking can cause weight gain but they do not grow muscle mass. Those are anabotic steriods. Plus if you are eating like Lisa, the weight probably would have gone away since your body usually readjust when coming off these med. That's why they taper down when you are on them. For example Prednisone or a Medrol Dosepack.
Patty and Selma harping on Homer is getting old especially when he was trying to help his daughter. It was his idea. The song was stupid. 30+ years and the one thing that comes to mind with Patty and Selma is that they are miserable people. If you notice they went around messing up innocent people's outing, no one was wrecking theirs. But who gives a crap right.
The best part was the Waterslide Park, great scene of Homer having fun with his kids.
The Milhouse part of the story was just weird. Water diapers. Taking a bath with mommy. Wow.
This has been done a few times. Brush With Greatness" was Homer feeling bad about being overweight and "Sleeping With the Enemy" Lisa starves herself because the girls where calling her fat. Crap the girls at school called Bart fatty fatty fat fat. Being picked on by your peers sucks and that shit doesn't go away.
Dr. Hibbert sounds awful. The chuckle is gone.
Shawna was to much.
Did the writers forget that Homer was constantly berated by his father? But make a joke about peanut butter, bravo (clap, clap).
Maybe I'm being a hard ass but I just don't think it was that great of an episode. I understand what they were trying to convey but it could have done better.
1/5 (might change it to a 2 later but don't count on it).
Patty and Selma harping on Homer is getting old especially when he was trying to help his daughter. It was his idea. The song was stupid. 30+ years and the one thing that comes to mind with Patty and Selma is that they are miserable people. If you notice they went around messing up innocent people's outing, no one was wrecking theirs. But who gives a crap right.
The best part was the Waterslide Park, great scene of Homer having fun with his kids.
The Milhouse part of the story was just weird. Water diapers. Taking a bath with mommy. Wow.
This has been done a few times. Brush With Greatness" was Homer feeling bad about being overweight and "Sleeping With the Enemy" Lisa starves herself because the girls where calling her fat. Crap the girls at school called Bart fatty fatty fat fat. Being picked on by your peers sucks and that shit doesn't go away.
Dr. Hibbert sounds awful. The chuckle is gone.
Shawna was to much.
Did the writers forget that Homer was constantly berated by his father? But make a joke about peanut butter, bravo (clap, clap).
Maybe I'm being a hard ass but I just don't think it was that great of an episode. I understand what they were trying to convey but it could have done better.
1/5 (might change it to a 2 later but don't count on it).
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The introduction (act 1) is classically great! No more to say.
So, a body look is lead for both stories.
Start with Bart (it's easier). It was good: Bart got cheat to the bullies to have a fun with them (and return a good shape). But the plot twist as of "girls" (sorry, if anything) was really weak and more weird is that Bar's little alone song in final.
The Marge and Lisa story is more interested. It's a spoof in the same time on: Plus-size girl, social labels, body positivism (It was good seen though Patty and Selma, but Lisa unfortunally (or luckily) didn't go so far), perception, norms of "normal", child trauma etc. The conflict between Marge and Lisa was shown in really amazing way (thanks to both Timothy Bailey and Juliet Kaufman). And the act 3 is literally to understand each other being "in their head". Despite it was absurdly, but perhaps, really the best way to do.
If no poor sub-plot, I'd give the highest mark, but so far 4/5
Late update: I reminded I need some "morale" speech from Lisa about problem actuality like "why in modern world still you must follow some beaty standarts?". Simple, head-throwing, but effective note.
So, a body look is lead for both stories.
Start with Bart (it's easier). It was good: Bart got cheat to the bullies to have a fun with them (and return a good shape). But the plot twist as of "girls" (sorry, if anything) was really weak and more weird is that Bar's little alone song in final.
The Marge and Lisa story is more interested. It's a spoof in the same time on: Plus-size girl, social labels, body positivism (It was good seen though Patty and Selma, but Lisa unfortunally (or luckily) didn't go so far), perception, norms of "normal", child trauma etc. The conflict between Marge and Lisa was shown in really amazing way (thanks to both Timothy Bailey and Juliet Kaufman). And the act 3 is literally to understand each other being "in their head". Despite it was absurdly, but perhaps, really the best way to do.
If no poor sub-plot, I'd give the highest mark, but so far 4/5
Late update: I reminded I need some "morale" speech from Lisa about problem actuality like "why in modern world still you must follow some beaty standarts?". Simple, head-throwing, but effective note.
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I also like that they avoided the very obvious direction of making the episode be about the kids at school making fun of them for the new weight. Bart got teased for one line before everyone was on board with it and Lisa never got heat from anyone for it. Good.
John95
SuperFriend
I don't really get what was so bad about Shauna here, she was just in one scene and honestly she was the only tolerable part about that moment since that's when I decided to check out from the rest of the episode.
Barring Beware My Cheating Bart, do people just dislike her simply for existing that they automatically decide that she's terrible in any context she's in?
Barring Beware My Cheating Bart, do people just dislike her simply for existing that they automatically decide that she's terrible in any context she's in?
SimpsonsWillGoOnForever
Pin Pal
That's what I was thinking. She barely affected the scene at all and was only there to give like 2 or 3 jokes which were quick and done with. Perhaps people are preparing their harping for her centered episode coming up.
I think it's that a vocal minority has a deep dislike of the Shauna character (and her role here was so minor it's not even worth to be bothered by, in all honesty). Her introduction in the show ('Beware My Cheating Bart') wasn't the best nor flattering, but I think she's generally improved since and I don't mind her nor that she'll get her own episode soon (which could be interesting).
(My review is coming soon, btw. It is finished but I've been preoccupied and forgot posting it twice).
(My review is coming soon, btw. It is finished but I've been preoccupied and forgot posting it twice).
I suspect so. It reminds me of the way people used to react negatively and harshly whenever Gil appeared back in the late noughties.
John95
SuperFriend
@CousinMerl, She'd actually been around since halfway into Season 20 but that episode was not only the first one to put a spotlight on her I believe it was also the first time she was named.
That's why I said barring that episode as it's the only time where I feel like their hatred for Shauna is somewhat justified even if I don't have the same mindset (she shouldn't have flashed Bart, but I don't consider her a pedophile because they imply she's a teen). That said, I'll confess that I used that episode against her in Livin La Pura Vida when she complains about Jimbo cheating on her.
But, I've said before that I feel as though she does give some fresh blood to the series and was glad that she was elevated to recurring character status unlike Maya (initially, maybe). Despite my expectations for it being a little low, I am curious to see how that upcoming one about her will turn out especially when compared to Beware My Cheating Bart.
That's why I said barring that episode as it's the only time where I feel like their hatred for Shauna is somewhat justified even if I don't have the same mindset (she shouldn't have flashed Bart, but I don't consider her a pedophile because they imply she's a teen). That said, I'll confess that I used that episode against her in Livin La Pura Vida when she complains about Jimbo cheating on her.
But, I've said before that I feel as though she does give some fresh blood to the series and was glad that she was elevated to recurring character status unlike Maya (initially, maybe). Despite my expectations for it being a little low, I am curious to see how that upcoming one about her will turn out especially when compared to Beware My Cheating Bart.
@John95, I know that episode wasn't her introduction (initially put "proper introduction" in the post but decided against it) but for all intents and purposes, that was her first actual prominent appearance so that is why I count it as her introduction.
I too think she's an okay character and like you I feel she adds some freshness to a show that is sorely lacking in teenager characters (and she fits the apatethic "whatever, I don't care" teenage stereotype well), but they have so far not done anything interesting with her, which I have to hope will be the case for her upcoming starring role.
I too think she's an okay character and like you I feel she adds some freshness to a show that is sorely lacking in teenager characters (and she fits the apatethic "whatever, I don't care" teenage stereotype well), but they have so far not done anything interesting with her, which I have to hope will be the case for her upcoming starring role.
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I found the episode pretty good overall and really surprisingly so considering the somewhat lofty expectations and unease (due to not knowing what to expect from handling topics such as body positivity and how hurtful words stay with you) I felt prior. This was a well handled story, starting off with an instigating incident at a water park (that sees Bart & Lisa become quite ill due to a trip with Homer to a closed-off attraction from the old park) before it splits into an entertaining main plot with an interesting conflict between Lisa and Marge (stemming from how the latter called the former "chunky" in an innocent way) & an amusing little subplot about Bart hanging out with local bullies Jimbo, Dolph, Kearney & Nelson in their secret gym. I wouldn't say that this was one of the top best episodes of the HD era, but it is one of the better efforts of the seasons.
I thought the opening with the Simpsons going to the Quiet Rivers' water park (formerly 'Riot Rivers', which Homer remembered it as from his youth) was a surprisingly good one. Some nice gags (such as Homer's memory of it being identical to the criticism video Lisa shows him bar the music, some sign jokes & Milhouse being some swim diaper lover due to fond memories created a chuckle, though it was kinda creepy), but felt they dragged out Homer's initial angry disappointment about the park remade as this super safe place a bit much for my taste. Homer taking Bart & Lisa for one (last) ride at an old dangerous run-down super slide called Devil's Deluge' was fun (nice with the three having fun & solid animation work). So Bart & Lisa get really sick due to the tainted water (cue poop joke about the park evacuated in a panic before the kids have an incident).
Then Bart & Lisa are required to take steroid medication and it that causes them to swell up (Lisa surprisingly less than Bart, who definitely looked fat). I liked the cutaway joke about Bart's praying mantis prank on Skinner (pretty funny) & Lisa being secretly hurt by Marge innocently calling her "chunky" before school was a great bit (with the visual of the word invading her mind like a huge slab of cement) and it gave a nivce scene of her hearing the word everywhere at school (which added to the realism as she cannot stop thinking of it) while Bart revealing to the bullies he has taken steroids and being invited to work out at a secret gym in the school basement. I must say that I was really positively surprised they didn't have anything with neither Bart nor Lisa bullied due to their rotund appearances which was a very nice decision by the writer.
The conflict between Lisa and Marge was the episode's strong point for sure. I really enjoyed how it was building with Lisa feeling all the more depressed about her unfortunate post-medication appearance (I also saw this as a bit of a comment on how some strong medications have negative effects on patients' physical appearance and mental well-being) while Marge sees something is wrong and tries to be a good parent and cheer her up, until Lisa gets fed up and loses it as Marge has her trying out new clothes and keeps mentioning her appearance. There were both some nice humor, like the bystander reactions and Marge's word "flattering" making the "chunky" way worse (hilarious), but the voiceacting was great as well with them increasingly getting angrier and Lisa's tantrum was one of Yeardley's more powerful (and amusing) moments as of late.
Marge enlisting Homer's help to talk with Lisa gave great scene with Homer really trying to be a great father to Lisa (and it was pretty funny, with Homer's thought process being a bit of a highlight) so good scene. Then we have Patty & Selma enlisted to help Lisa feel good about herself (which was a nice move by Homer) as they are used to being called ugly, fat, unattractive, etc. and that led to a fun spoof take on 'Aquarius' from the musical 'Hair' with Patty & Selma singing "The Age of Who Gives A Crap?' (maybe it wasn't necessary, but I found the visuals and lyrics amusing, plus it fit in with the body positivity theme & what characters are better to tackle that than Marge's sisters?). Lisa and Marge reconciling was a nice scene, but then Marge inadvertedly lets two wrong words slip (I actuallyfelt bad for Marge, who just cannot help herself).
Then there's the part with Marge taking Lisa to a hypnotherapist (after a run-in with Luann Van Houten and Milhouse, which was a little amusing but weird with the bath joke) and the scene itself was well done (and I suppose nice detail of the therapist being a breast cancer survivor) & allowed for some introspectiveness with the two going into each other's mind and see the damage, not only for Lisa's but in Marge's mind (with her own mother Jaqueline having called her "plain"). Nice final reconciliation with the two words bothering them shrinking down to a small size and the two sitting down (both apparently still in the mind of Lisa), realizing how much some words can hurt and probably will remain there in some form for the forseeable future (which was a nice and realistic moment, which gave a good message and a nice end note for the story.
And then there was Bart's plot with him hanging out with the bullies in their gym and it was nothing special at all , even though it was nice to see them on a common and friendly ground (even though Bart essentially lied to them, as his steroids were just a part of the medication he had to take to get rid of the infections). It had some nice little interactions and jokes, plus I liked the end with Bart disliking how they suddenly bring in their girlfriends (which to him ruins everything) so he just walks out on them and is back monologuing on the schoolyard in an funny little poetic last moments. I think that this plot technically could have been left out, but I liked it as it did add some levity to counter the dramatic main story & Bart's portrayal was fairly good (plus it is nice to see the bullies not being bullies once in a while). Nice one, even if it felt a little disposable.
All in all, a good episode with some really interesting stuff. Strong main story with the conflict between mother & daughter being great (not only being really dramatic but also a bit funny & also realistic) and I liked the body positivty theme & how some words can be really hurtful (even those that are unintentional) and stick with you for a long time if not forever to some extent (so definitely a relatable, some of which there haven't been that many as of late. 'Bart's In Jail!' certainly comes to mind as one of these, though this one is a much older issue still going strong). Subplot was pretty fun and entertaining despite not completely necessary and a bit throwaway (and I'm a little disappointed Bart didn't actually get swole like the plot description promised. I wanted cursed swole Bart, dammit! Lol) but anyhow still a nice enough little side story.
I'll give it a 4/5. Not one of the best and with some issues (such as why doesn't Homer have any medication-related issues as he got sick too, the weirdo Milhouse jokes were a little much, the body positive messaging could have been improved upon as they felt a little muddled & the subplot was just OK), but it was still fine (not only the themes, drama and jokes, but characterizations and pacing). Nice first effort by writer Juliet Kaufman, great direction by Tim Bailey and nice job by Matt Selman. Standout episode of the season so far. I can understand why this episode failed to some, but I enjoyed it and would like to see more like it (episodes tackle real-life problems rather head-on with interesting drama, nice humor and some realism, like the abeformentioned 'Bart's In Jail!').
I thought the opening with the Simpsons going to the Quiet Rivers' water park (formerly 'Riot Rivers', which Homer remembered it as from his youth) was a surprisingly good one. Some nice gags (such as Homer's memory of it being identical to the criticism video Lisa shows him bar the music, some sign jokes & Milhouse being some swim diaper lover due to fond memories created a chuckle, though it was kinda creepy), but felt they dragged out Homer's initial angry disappointment about the park remade as this super safe place a bit much for my taste. Homer taking Bart & Lisa for one (last) ride at an old dangerous run-down super slide called Devil's Deluge' was fun (nice with the three having fun & solid animation work). So Bart & Lisa get really sick due to the tainted water (cue poop joke about the park evacuated in a panic before the kids have an incident).
Then Bart & Lisa are required to take steroid medication and it that causes them to swell up (Lisa surprisingly less than Bart, who definitely looked fat). I liked the cutaway joke about Bart's praying mantis prank on Skinner (pretty funny) & Lisa being secretly hurt by Marge innocently calling her "chunky" before school was a great bit (with the visual of the word invading her mind like a huge slab of cement) and it gave a nivce scene of her hearing the word everywhere at school (which added to the realism as she cannot stop thinking of it) while Bart revealing to the bullies he has taken steroids and being invited to work out at a secret gym in the school basement. I must say that I was really positively surprised they didn't have anything with neither Bart nor Lisa bullied due to their rotund appearances which was a very nice decision by the writer.
The conflict between Lisa and Marge was the episode's strong point for sure. I really enjoyed how it was building with Lisa feeling all the more depressed about her unfortunate post-medication appearance (I also saw this as a bit of a comment on how some strong medications have negative effects on patients' physical appearance and mental well-being) while Marge sees something is wrong and tries to be a good parent and cheer her up, until Lisa gets fed up and loses it as Marge has her trying out new clothes and keeps mentioning her appearance. There were both some nice humor, like the bystander reactions and Marge's word "flattering" making the "chunky" way worse (hilarious), but the voiceacting was great as well with them increasingly getting angrier and Lisa's tantrum was one of Yeardley's more powerful (and amusing) moments as of late.
Marge enlisting Homer's help to talk with Lisa gave great scene with Homer really trying to be a great father to Lisa (and it was pretty funny, with Homer's thought process being a bit of a highlight) so good scene. Then we have Patty & Selma enlisted to help Lisa feel good about herself (which was a nice move by Homer) as they are used to being called ugly, fat, unattractive, etc. and that led to a fun spoof take on 'Aquarius' from the musical 'Hair' with Patty & Selma singing "The Age of Who Gives A Crap?' (maybe it wasn't necessary, but I found the visuals and lyrics amusing, plus it fit in with the body positivity theme & what characters are better to tackle that than Marge's sisters?). Lisa and Marge reconciling was a nice scene, but then Marge inadvertedly lets two wrong words slip (I actuallyfelt bad for Marge, who just cannot help herself).
Then there's the part with Marge taking Lisa to a hypnotherapist (after a run-in with Luann Van Houten and Milhouse, which was a little amusing but weird with the bath joke) and the scene itself was well done (and I suppose nice detail of the therapist being a breast cancer survivor) & allowed for some introspectiveness with the two going into each other's mind and see the damage, not only for Lisa's but in Marge's mind (with her own mother Jaqueline having called her "plain"). Nice final reconciliation with the two words bothering them shrinking down to a small size and the two sitting down (both apparently still in the mind of Lisa), realizing how much some words can hurt and probably will remain there in some form for the forseeable future (which was a nice and realistic moment, which gave a good message and a nice end note for the story.
And then there was Bart's plot with him hanging out with the bullies in their gym and it was nothing special at all , even though it was nice to see them on a common and friendly ground (even though Bart essentially lied to them, as his steroids were just a part of the medication he had to take to get rid of the infections). It had some nice little interactions and jokes, plus I liked the end with Bart disliking how they suddenly bring in their girlfriends (which to him ruins everything) so he just walks out on them and is back monologuing on the schoolyard in an funny little poetic last moments. I think that this plot technically could have been left out, but I liked it as it did add some levity to counter the dramatic main story & Bart's portrayal was fairly good (plus it is nice to see the bullies not being bullies once in a while). Nice one, even if it felt a little disposable.
All in all, a good episode with some really interesting stuff. Strong main story with the conflict between mother & daughter being great (not only being really dramatic but also a bit funny & also realistic) and I liked the body positivty theme & how some words can be really hurtful (even those that are unintentional) and stick with you for a long time if not forever to some extent (so definitely a relatable, some of which there haven't been that many as of late. 'Bart's In Jail!' certainly comes to mind as one of these, though this one is a much older issue still going strong). Subplot was pretty fun and entertaining despite not completely necessary and a bit throwaway (and I'm a little disappointed Bart didn't actually get swole like the plot description promised. I wanted cursed swole Bart, dammit! Lol) but anyhow still a nice enough little side story.
I'll give it a 4/5. Not one of the best and with some issues (such as why doesn't Homer have any medication-related issues as he got sick too, the weirdo Milhouse jokes were a little much, the body positive messaging could have been improved upon as they felt a little muddled & the subplot was just OK), but it was still fine (not only the themes, drama and jokes, but characterizations and pacing). Nice first effort by writer Juliet Kaufman, great direction by Tim Bailey and nice job by Matt Selman. Standout episode of the season so far. I can understand why this episode failed to some, but I enjoyed it and would like to see more like it (episodes tackle real-life problems rather head-on with interesting drama, nice humor and some realism, like the abeformentioned 'Bart's In Jail!').
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Venomrabbit
Passion's gone
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Well I dunno about anyone else but for me when it comes to Shauna... she's a pedophile. She instigated an all-but-sexual relationship with a ten year old. Well considering the flashing and that bit with the tie on the door I'm not even sure it stopped there. Not only isn't she treated as the villain she obviously is but if anything that act like Bart was in the wrong. Not once have they killed her onscreen (that one intro doesn't count, it cut away before she was even in mild discomfort) and pick on others for less. And of all the neglected and abused female characters to spend time and developement on (easily in most cases) it's always her.
And it's not a one-off thing either. She forced a kiss on him to his muffled protests in another ep and opened a french kissing club in an elementary school. At the risk of oversharing last time I saw Beware My Cheating Bart I had to be talked down by someone before I felt okay again, it was legitimately triggering. Sexually abusing children doesn't become okay just because it's a "hot" woman doing it... that is if she's not a minor in which case the way she's sexualized is even more creepy.
So yeah, she's skin-crawlingly uncomfortable for me to see in any context. Well, I suppose "brutal onscreen death" would be a good one but that'll never happen. Unless she finally gets some overdue comeuppance, I think "Girls Just Shauna Have Fun" is actually gonna be bad for my mental health.
They want a teenage girl character just use any of the ones that showed up in this ep. Even if their characters are basically the same at least they're not possible child molesters... hopefully.
And it's not a one-off thing either. She forced a kiss on him to his muffled protests in another ep and opened a french kissing club in an elementary school. At the risk of oversharing last time I saw Beware My Cheating Bart I had to be talked down by someone before I felt okay again, it was legitimately triggering. Sexually abusing children doesn't become okay just because it's a "hot" woman doing it... that is if she's not a minor in which case the way she's sexualized is even more creepy.
So yeah, she's skin-crawlingly uncomfortable for me to see in any context. Well, I suppose "brutal onscreen death" would be a good one but that'll never happen. Unless she finally gets some overdue comeuppance, I think "Girls Just Shauna Have Fun" is actually gonna be bad for my mental health.
They want a teenage girl character just use any of the ones that showed up in this ep. Even if their characters are basically the same at least they're not possible child molesters... hopefully.
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Frankbags
Stonecutter
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- 1,081
Why do people have such emotional attachment to that character? people wishing a brutal death on a character they don't like.
Are they in the same crowd that complains that lisa never dies in THOH ? I understand criticisms about what she did to/with bart, it wouldn't fly if the roles were replaced with jimbo and lisa. What I don't understand is how people can hate her so much that a good, in-character, involvement in the plot brings the score of an episode down. Have we forgotten how emotionally and physically abusive homer was? he's a child beater.
Are they in the same crowd that complains that lisa never dies in THOH ? I understand criticisms about what she did to/with bart, it wouldn't fly if the roles were replaced with jimbo and lisa. What I don't understand is how people can hate her so much that a good, in-character, involvement in the plot brings the score of an episode down. Have we forgotten how emotionally and physically abusive homer was? he's a child beater.
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GlitterCat
RIP Jonesy March 8th 2022 - October 16th 2023
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2017
- Messages
- 2,294
I have never seen Cheating Bart because it sounds like a creepy dumpster fire or this episode because it was triggering. I am glad to hear that the episode at least didn't go for fat kids and ridicule at home/school. I know my issues with anorexia started in middle school, my dad had passed away and my mom alternated between mean and distant, often accusing me of being "just like him" as some nebulous insult. Well my dad was quite overweight so I asked mom if I was thinner, would she love me? And she said "maybe". That combined with an article in Seventeen called "dying to be thin" taught me everything the interviewed girl did to lose weight. And I still obsessively count calories, today I have rounded up eaten 1000 cals for lunch and breakfast an applesauce snack, so I've already determined dinner will be just be no sugar added canned peaches. And I played volleyball with my friends after work and I still feel fat and ugly, so I can imagine Lisa's pain. Did they show any of Lisa dieting in this episode or say she was afraid she was no longer pretty?
John95
SuperFriend
@GlitterCat, No, none of that happens here.
To me, the episode's biggest crime is that it's too much like an ABC Afterschool special about body positivity, and it's at the expense of the episode feeling very tedious, extremely light on actual jokes and the "Message" of body positivity is somewhat muddled because it acts as a Trojan horse for another message of how words/comments made by mothers can unintentionally impact their children.
To me, the episode's biggest crime is that it's too much like an ABC Afterschool special about body positivity, and it's at the expense of the episode feeling very tedious, extremely light on actual jokes and the "Message" of body positivity is somewhat muddled because it acts as a Trojan horse for another message of how words/comments made by mothers can unintentionally impact their children.
Venomrabbit
Passion's gone
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2012
- Messages
- 3,008
I might have missed the time Homer strangling Bart was treated like it was sexy, or good outside of that one ep that's almost always in peoples' bottom ten. So pretty sure people aren't okay with it, to the point where it might have silently been phased out altogether. And he does get judged, a lot. And bad things happen to him and we're meant to laugh at his misfortune.
Also holy shit, @GlitterCat I am really sorry to hear that. The stuff you asked about doesn't really happen but I'd still give this a miss anyway, triggers aren't the sorta thing to take chances around... On that note, I guess we're not friends or anything but if you need someone to talk at, feel free to PM me, okay? I mean don't feel obligated to either but the door's open for you.
Also holy shit, @GlitterCat I am really sorry to hear that. The stuff you asked about doesn't really happen but I'd still give this a miss anyway, triggers aren't the sorta thing to take chances around... On that note, I guess we're not friends or anything but if you need someone to talk at, feel free to PM me, okay? I mean don't feel obligated to either but the door's open for you.
I find it interesting that as of right now, for such a generally well liked episode, the second highest rating comes from those who hated it and gave it 1/5. Like I said in my review, I can understand why it doesn't work to some, but not really how it is all that bad, especially compared to all the more or less recent episodes that really deserve their poor ratings.
At least with an episode 'The Star Of The Backstage' I can sorta understand the hate (as musicals tend to put off a lot of people, mainly) but this one I'm a little stumped on regarding the general negativity. Not saying it is one of the very best recent episodes or anything, but I cannot really see what makes this one into that much of a failure.
At least with an episode 'The Star Of The Backstage' I can sorta understand the hate (as musicals tend to put off a lot of people, mainly) but this one I'm a little stumped on regarding the general negativity. Not saying it is one of the very best recent episodes or anything, but I cannot really see what makes this one into that much of a failure.
Venomrabbit
Passion's gone
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- Dec 27, 2012
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- 3,008
Guess it's just kind of a touchy topic itself?
John95
SuperFriend
As @Scrooge McDuck pointed out they've already done this kind of story before like in Brush with Greatness (which also began at a water park) and Sleeping with the Enemy. The big difference between those and this though is that this feels more sitcomy with it's message and how hammered in it is at the expense of their not being very many actual jokes.
I don't give a shit about whether the initial topic (body positivity which acts as a Trojan to the words/comments from mother's thing) is a touchy one or not, just that it's super boring as fuck and mostly laugh free!
I don't give a shit about whether the initial topic (body positivity which acts as a Trojan to the words/comments from mother's thing) is a touchy one or not, just that it's super boring as fuck and mostly laugh free!
Frankbags
Stonecutter
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2017
- Messages
- 1,081
I was going through the thread and I missed this the first time.. This is unhealthy, that's not how you lose weight. Seek professional help.
That sounds way more like 'Barts in Jail!' with its obvious on the nose messaging about phone scammers than whatever this episode did (which I think handled things better and more naturally), but each to their own, I guess.
Trojan? How exactly did the two subjects be such a bad pair in your opinion? The way I saw it they complemented each other pretty well (and using the body positivity angle as a way of tackling the hurtful words conflict made good sense). The HD era has done a lot worse with actual trojans/trojan horses before, but not this time.
And was it really all that boring? I thought that 'The Wayz We Were' was the dull one of the most recent episodes (that and the 'Treehouse Of Horror'), but again, your mileage may vary.
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sideshow ken
Stonecutter
I really enjoyed this one. It was great that they handled the issue of how we look for both genders really well. This hurts on how we feel and there have been consequences but, the writers knew what they were doing here. It starts with Homer taking the family to a water park that has been made safe because of the accidents reported. It reminds me of Action Park in the 80s. He takes them to a slide that was closed and was considered dangerous. (Why am I not surprised.) But at least he had fun with them sliding down. The animation was really good and they made down in one piece. After getting sick, they get steroids and Bart gets big the most and Lisa get a belly. I also agree I would have like to see Homer swole but I guess him gaining all that weight in King Size Homer made up for it. After Lisa sees her belly, Marge tries to cheer her up by calling her chunky and flattering. Those didn't help. Seeing Lisa throwing a tantrum was the most realistic time Lisa acted like a little and I thank Yeardley Smith for giving a great performance. Homer acted like a real father in this one and I'm glad he invited Patty and Selma to cheer her up. Now those two aren't models but they are happy with whom they are. Even with their love handles, sagging skin,etc... they are happy. I love the Aqaurius song spoof. I love when Marge when she recognizes her own imperfections. When she looked back and her mother called her plain. This made the bonding between her and Lisa stronger.
The subplot with Bart was also good. I'm glad he got along with the bullies when they mistook him for gaining muscles but he needed the steroids for medication. When the girlfriends of the bullies came, he thought they were just bragging but reality comes in and Bart is left out. He goes out and stands in the playground with a monologue that was sad but was truthful.
Overall this was a great episode. This is the best so far. Treating the subject of body positivity was well done. Millhouse wearing a diaper was so creepy. They should more episodes like this. 4.5
The subplot with Bart was also good. I'm glad he got along with the bullies when they mistook him for gaining muscles but he needed the steroids for medication. When the girlfriends of the bullies came, he thought they were just bragging but reality comes in and Bart is left out. He goes out and stands in the playground with a monologue that was sad but was truthful.
Overall this was a great episode. This is the best so far. Treating the subject of body positivity was well done. Millhouse wearing a diaper was so creepy. They should more episodes like this. 4.5
orangemo
Stonecutter
Great message about issues on gender and mental health. It really hit home when the metaphor of the words went into Lisa’s mind. I’ve had an issue with weight until recently so I can relate to this a lot. Not to mention it’s pretty damn funny. 4/5 for the poll
Wile
*yawn*
Man, this episode was very sweet. As a person who tends to stress about what people think and say about me even when I shouldn't, I get what Lisa is going through here and I appreciate how this episode tackles that a lot, it does understand the power of words and their effects on mental health (even with the best intentions), and how things can get out of hand because of what is perceived as "normal". Seeing Lisa acting like a genuine kid is always a treat to me and the conflict between her and Marge was pretty well-done. Even the last part I enjoyed, a bit absurd but an interesting way for Marge and Lisa to have a view on each other's mindset, literally. Homer is both fun and charming in this one, bringing some laughs by his childish antics at the beginning and trying his best even if he has to call the two women he hates the most to make Lisa feel better, which is sweet. Bart's subplot is less important but, as usual with Selman, I appreciate how complementary to the main plot it feels (each of them being a different variation of the same themes - Bart and Lisa having their own way to deal with their weight gain). Just a nice little episode, reasonably funny on top of that. 4/5
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