Darren said:
I never really could understand how anyone could call this episode dated.
i agree; i dont think its really dated. i think dated might be the wrong word these people are using though.
if by dated they mean a
little irrelevant, then i can sympathise. as an eight year old i never grappled with moral decisions in the way lisa does here, and so if these critics are criticising the episode because they cannot identify with this situation then i'd sympathise. it's not an uncommon criticism, and its actually a criticism you'll hear from the simpsons writers, albeit concerning bart. al jean stated in one commentary - i forget which - that he had difficult writing for bart, and that he disliked bart, because he cannot identify with him. some probably have trouble identifying with lisa and the way she's portrayed in this episode, and i think it's a valid criticism.
having said as much, i've never held lisa's characterisation against her. it's there, it'd odd, but once you accept that she's unlike many other eight year old's you get over it and work with it.
i think by 'dated' though, they might also be referring to the whole issue of sin and religion and whatever else. im not american and i was not brought up religious. for me, the issue is a little laboured because it's so unlike anything you see where i live. i'm thinking right now, and for the life of me, i cannot think of anyone that actually attended sunday school, or who goes to church weekly. the closest i can think of was a samoan girl i used to work with, whose family was mormon :silly:
for me, organised religion, sunday school etc is a dated issue. it's something that used to happen, but doesn't anymore, and the episode's setting is a little foreign.
i pre-empt those who will read this post as a damning criticism of the episode, and i state that i personally rate it an A+. i was originally thinking an A, but i upgraded it. aside from the foreign setting, there's no reason to regarded the episode poorly. and even this criticism, i think, is not all that problematic. yes the sunday school/religion elements might seem a little foreign, but i'm still aware of them, and i think most people do too. further, any problems with 'datedness' can be rationalised in the same way. those dated things might not be important anymore, but they're still pretty accessible.
(in contrast to like father like clown, which has elements that are inaccessible)
She is the Lisa before everything went wrong and she became a pushy P.C Liberal.
i never really minded that transformation too much. go to a university, find some lefties or some commies, and pleasantly put forth an argument for free market economics and watch the way they react. this particular characterisation hits close to home, for me. i guess the trick with lisa is to make sure this pushiness is limited solely to her politics and that when it interferes elsewhere, as it did in lisa the vegetarian, that she realises her folly. actually, i think lisa the vegetarian is one of the better lisa episodes because it mixes that pc element with the calmer elements of her character. the pc thing becomes problematic when it's overbearing.
also, was it this episode where lisa's rationale for her form of protest was non-violent resistance? well that could well be regarded as pushy, just in a non-pushy way
But the most defining moment is when the town all gets together to watch the fight on illegal cable. The cops/ Apu/plant workers/Mr. Burns all get together the scene in itself is a great testament of the towns corruption and and lack of morals and showcasing Lisa as the towns moral center(a trait the writers would take to far in some episodes) as she and Marge are the only ones not to watch the fight at the start. But in the end Homer does realize that his actions are not right with the jail scene and him having to hide nearly everything in the house because he'd stolen it from work/Moe's etc. That end is a great look at Homer as well in showing that eventually he will realize that his actions are wrong and will attempt to correct them. Whether it be making Bart stay outside with the family or later cutting the cable.
if the town is removed from lisa's morality then, by definition, the town's 'moral centre' would be nowhere near her. second, and more personally, i don't think watching stolen cable qualifies as 'corruption'. on that point, i'm not convinced that the episode's purpose was to damn the town's supposed lack of morals at all. the end shows burns and apu - the immigrant and the megalomanical tycoon - chatting like old friends while they, and the rest of the town, head out for squishees. even though the 'sin' of theft was present, the episode ends on a pretty uplifting note by showing the town's community and the rest of that schmaltzy crap, lol.
and from memory, homer doesn't return those stolen items because he realises he's done wrong - he's afraid of getting caught. similarly, i really don't think he cut off the cable because his morals suddenly lined up with lisa's. instead, i think the pressure just got to him, he wanted to shut her up, and he wanted to please his daughter. after all, he doesn't exactly have a smile on his face when he's cutting off the cable, does he?
earlier in this thread chou said, "And she tells her father this, hoping he understands, and eventually he comes around. It's really nice in how they demonstrate Lisa's relationship with Homer and Marge. Marge is supportive of her and Homer doesn't understand her motives but still decides to comply."
i think that's quite true, and i think it's a mis-read of the episode to suggest its an affirmation of conventional morality.